tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3506775960582955017.post6853354362466375830..comments2023-04-05T12:13:14.694-04:00Comments on The Rector's Corner: The Letter to the RomansThe Very Rev. Doug Scharfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11136450471786885986noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3506775960582955017.post-41737952601796370962010-05-13T21:56:29.893-04:002010-05-13T21:56:29.893-04:00(Bill's words)Not sure what I was thinking the...(Bill's words)Not sure what I was thinking there with that question, so when I went back and read over Romans chapter seven, it seems as if verse 25 is the answer I'm looking for...which reads "So then, on the one hand I find myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh, the law of sin."lvedwards414https://www.blogger.com/profile/10175446400049285678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3506775960582955017.post-91249803960561109822010-05-13T09:19:25.193-04:002010-05-13T09:19:25.193-04:00I also thought of the analogy with telling someone...I also thought of the analogy with telling someone not to do something and tempting them to do it (i.e., telling someone not to look down from a great height). That makes a lot of sense to some degree, as "children of God" we may be tempted to test the limits of authority and our own autonomy just as our own children do so to us. But, if you didn't know an action was wrong, wouldn't you just do it anyway. Wouldn't your son touch the TV out of curiosity, regardless of your prohibition? Do people murder, steal, lie, etc. simply because it is prohibited? Are they more likely to do so because of a prohibition? Maybe, but more likely rates of theft, lying, taking the Lord's name in vain, and other transgressions would rise in the absence of moral laws.<br /><br />I think Paul is much closer to the mark when he talks about the weakness of the flesh (I read that as meaning our visceral desires and desire for immediate gratification rather than a strict mind/body dualism). The struggle between id and superego creates much more temptation in me to sin than any sort of law or prohibition.<br /><br />I do appreciate Paul addressing both issues as it may differ depending on one's personality. Some folks may be more likely to want to defy authority just for the sake of defiance. I have always tended to be more of a rule follower. Covering both bases makes sense.Joe Pergolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14943106501504261141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3506775960582955017.post-77896755954559815622010-05-12T21:52:06.325-04:002010-05-12T21:52:06.325-04:00I think what Paul means in Romans 7:7 is that the ...I think what Paul means in Romans 7:7 is that the law brought about the consciousness or awareness of sin. Sin came into the world through Adam (5:12). The law simply defined what was already happening. According to Paul, this is a good thing! In Galatians, Paul says that the law was our guardian or disciplinarian until Christ came. In other words, the law defined the boundaries of our covenant relationship with God. <br /><br />The other side of Paul's argument concerns the enticement of sin. The law defines sin, but it can also provoke sin simply by naming it. For example, when I tell my 3 year son NOT to touch the TV that often makes him want to touch it even more! In the same way, knowledge of sin through the law and actually cause us to sin more. Since we are enslaved to sin, we do the very things we do not want to do!The Very Rev. Doug Scharfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11136450471786885986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3506775960582955017.post-12278172669074733672010-05-11T23:44:14.546-04:002010-05-11T23:44:14.546-04:00I am fascinated by Paul's claim in Romans 7:7 ...I am fascinated by Paul's claim in Romans 7:7 that the law is what makes sin possible. I understand that he wants to continue the distinction between works and faith. He also emphasizes that eternal life comes not from following the law but from following the Holy Spirit. However, is he seriously suggesting that he (and everyone else) did not covet anything until the law said "you shall not covet"? Oddly, in the verses that follow, Paul speaks of sin as if it is a proper noun, a living being that can deceive us and kill us. Is this an unusual way to view the commandments and sin, or was this a standard view in Paul's time?<br /><br />I have always thought of the commandments and laws as helping to define wrongful and immoral acts. Murder is wrong, so don't murder. Stealing is wrong, so don't steal. I think of them as reactive to a world in which people already murder and steal. I never thought of them as introducing the idea that we could murder and steal and thus making those sins possible in a way they weren't before the law. It isn't as if Moses came down with the tablets soon after the expulsion from the Garden. Humans knew of good and evil before God gave us the commandments. So why does Paul suggest the commandments themselves revived sin?Joe Pergolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14943106501504261141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3506775960582955017.post-78434535745755663202010-05-11T22:34:05.319-04:002010-05-11T22:34:05.319-04:00Thank you for clarifying what Paul means by "...Thank you for clarifying what Paul means by "justification." I read the passage several times and guessed it meant something like salvation. I really couldn't figure out why he was using that term. The passage makes much more sense now.Joe Pergolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14943106501504261141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3506775960582955017.post-31009365683992833782010-05-11T21:53:40.183-04:002010-05-11T21:53:40.183-04:00Can you define the terms "flesh" and &qu...Can you define the terms "flesh" and "mind?"The Very Rev. Doug Scharfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11136450471786885986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3506775960582955017.post-37006581387220518042010-05-11T21:43:37.720-04:002010-05-11T21:43:37.720-04:00Welcome back to the blogging world. We missed you...Welcome back to the blogging world. We missed you! We also enjoyed your sermon on Sunday about healing. <br /><br />Can you explain why the flesh is so much weaker than our mind? Do (worldly) forces become a factor?lvedwards414https://www.blogger.com/profile/10175446400049285678noreply@blogger.com